Convenient IDE for Mono C# for EV3 needed!

[Helmut Wunder]

ps, completely forgot to mention:
daisy-chaining like it’s provided by the Lego FW is completely missing at BCC/C, too – and that’s too bad, because daisy-chaining is almost the only feature which particularly distinguishes the EV3 opposed to the NXT (NXC, RobotC).

[Zoltan Szilagyi]

Hi, Helmut and Max:

Thanks for your feedbacks. It seems there are several tools to HANDLE EV3 brick (upload files, get screenshots, play music, etc.), but I’d like to PROGRAM my EV3! Let me summarize my understanding and experience:

JAVA: I have read (also elsewhere) that Java is very complicated to use, and on the other hand the childish sample programs haven’t convinced me either about that it would be the right choice.
BRICXCC: Originally developed for RCX and NXT bricks. In case of EV3 the programming possibilities are limited.
MONOBRICK: This is an attractive approach, guides are pretty much straightforward, not to mention this very forum. But I have already tried two versions of Xamarin Studio (v4.2 back in March and v5.0 recently) and although the installation completed successfully (at least it said that) Xamarin Studio simply didn’t start (in case of both versions just the annoying message appeared: Xamarin Studio encountered a problem and needs to close. Sorry for any inconvenience caused.). I use XP SP3, Hungarian version. Have I failed to install any prerequisite software/plugin/whatever? Could you comment this phenomenon, please!

Best regards,
Zoltan

[Helmut Wunder]

Zoltan,
Would you please open a new thread about your Xamarin issues?
My topic is more generally about super-simplified IDEs. Xamarin is for Apple – I don’t have Apple and it’s actually not what I would call “super-simplified” compared to Sketch IDE ode BCC IDE.

[Tcm0]

To Zoltan Szilagyi:
You can program the EV3 with the original Visual Studio by Microsoft, too. But only the 2010 version works on XP.

[Helmut Wunder]

Visual Studio is no convenient, downsized IDE – it’s a monster like Eclipse, I already pointed that out!

[Zoltan Szilagyi]

Dear Helmut and Max:

Thanks for your responses again. And I am sorry for writing about off-topic questions or issues, but I am still trying to put the pieces of information together in order to decide which tool is worth using. In your opinion there are some “monsters” like Eclipse and Visual Studio, and Helmut says Xamarin Studio is not a good choice either. We have already summarized which tools are NOT recommended, so it is time to reveal what to use instead. Or you guys just dreaming of a “super-simplified” IDE – so am I – which doesn’t exist yet? Actually I would be happy with ANY convenient IDE for EV3, Mono C# would be fine as well.

Best regards,
Zoltan

[Helmut Wunder]

that’s the point:
AFAIK it doesn’t exist a thing like this but IMO in it’s absence the user community will be limited to computer scientists or computer science students, hobby home programmers and beginners have no access and remain excluded as they already desparate during the install process and to upload the most simple sample programs.

As BCC is open source and already supports Java, pbForth, BrickOS, NXC, and gpp C/C++ it just would have to be customized and adapted to Mono. It’s even running on Windows XP, 7, Linux, and Mac (CMIIW).
A downsized Mono IDE with a Sketch-look-alike IDE of course would be fine, too.

[Tcm0]

Zoltan, the best for you would be to download the visual studio and try it yourself. You can continue to use it of you are confident with it or try to install xamarin studio if you don’t like it. I really like the visual studio as IDE (and Xamarin, too) but Helmut doesn’t.

[Helmut Wunder]

“Max”, I know that you are experienced in using VS already since a long time – but this is not valid for the majority of EV3 users and home programmers. As an admin of the biggest European Mindstorms forum ( “www.mindstormsforum.de” • posts > 42000 • topics: ~5200 • members > 3800 ) I daresay: I know what I’m speaking about.

IMO already the comparatively immensely small number of Mono users and the extremely small number of forum posts which are separated in time very far, shows that access to C#/Mono for most people is too difficult and deters and discourages.

If the target group for C#/Mono is supposed to be kept small just for computer scientists who are already fine with using Eclipse or VS, then it’s ok of course, but if it’s supposed to be targeted to the formerly really huge group of NXC users (which was the largest NXT-text-based programming group world-wide) then both C#/Mono and the related API and IDEs have to be simplified a lot.

• This reply was modified 10 years, 5 months ago by Helmut Wunder.

[Tcm0]

But that’s no reason why Zoltan shouldn’t test it. Maybe he’s a bit experienced, too and has no problems with the Visual Studio. Maybe he just wants to compile the code which is really not hard in VS (just press F5).
Beeing an Admin means nothing. I’m a Moderator in a forum about a product that I don’t even own. And the Forum has good stats, too. I don’t even visit it often any more.

[Helmut Wunder]

please stop your OT posting, this is not the topic of my thread – or are you just trolling?

Being an admin (and a moderator of the Mindstorms forum, all over since > 8 years) should say: I know what people need and what they are asking for, I know almost each one of the thousands of posts and questions and issues.

I already pointed out:
IMO already the comparatively immensely small number of Mono users and the extremely small number of forum posts which are separated in time very far, shows that access to C#/Mono for most people is too difficult and deters and discourages.

If the target group for C#/Mono is supposed to be kept small just for computer scientists who are already fine with using Eclipse or VS, then it’s ok of course, but if it’s supposed to be targeted to the formerly really huge group of NXC users (which was the largest NXT-text-based programming group world-wide) then both C#/Mono and the related API and IDEs have to be simplified a lot.

[Anders Søborg]

Hi All

I don’t want to get into a long debate about pros and cons about Xamarin Studio and other alternatives. But I find it odd that people would like a stripped down IDE with the argument being that you are only programming Robots. MonoBrick firmware allows you to use the full potential of the .Net framework. So it does not matter of you writing a program on a PC or for the EV3. You can access websites, send emails and even make the robot post to Facebook. For this you do not want a simple IDE. Anyway the Xamarin Add-in can now be downloaded here…

/Anders

[Helmut Wunder]

sorry Anders, I should have made this issue more clear:
I (and people I know) don’t need the full potential of the .Net framework.

We only want to program autonomous robots which are playing games (e.g., chess or cube solvers), or find ther way through labyrinths or even detect patterns by neural nets – and maybe have a USB connection to a 2nd or a 3rd brick for daisy-chaining.

For the EV3 I’ll never have the intention to access websites, send emails, and even make the robot post to Facebook – I even would never (!!) use .Net framework and/or Visual Studio if I ever tried to do that on my PC (and also no one else I know personally).
So we also never would use monster IDEs like Visual Studio or Eclipse for either purpose (and Xamarin actually looks very similar).

So as any PC or Website programming (or even other targeted platforms) of Visual Studio to us are just useless confusing ballast which obscures the view to sensor and motor and EV3 system API functions, we just needed 1 single file to be compiled and uploaded to the Lego brick by a simple stripped IDE.

[Anders Søborg]

Hi Helmut

Xamarin Studio combined with the lastes Add-in for the MonoBrick firmware gives you an absolutely amazing experience when debugging a program – I think that you should give it a try – and if in fact you need to make a robot that uses a neural network there are plenty of good third party .NET libraries out there that can run on the EV3 brick just by adding a reference to a DLL. But if you don’t fancy working with OOP and Visual Sudio/Eclipse then maybe MonoBrick firmware/LeJos is not the right choice.

Anders

[Helmut Wunder]

yes, maybe that’s the point – I really do have issues working with OOP by programs like Java or C# – I’m used to program procedural, no local, no private, no encapsulated ones, just ANSI C-like, everything public and global.
Just by these ANSI C functions I also once wrote my neural nets for the NXT and my chess robot move generator.

The OOP issues probably for those 100000 different classes and platforms also are one the reasons why I don’t get along with all those features of your IDEs which confuse me –

nevertheless, using Sketch C/C++ I dont’ have problems using the very simple stripped-down Sketch IDE, even for C++ objects. 😉

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